they certainly were pretty good in terms of the economy. the economy did not suffer. the economy did much better under clinton than bush. i don't think at least on the tax side, going over the cliff is that big of a deal. it's not really a cliff at all as you suggested and if we get major cuts in the military and defense spending, i'm not sure that's a bad idea at all. >> now, joy reid, we all deal with being dumped in different ways. that is the choice grover has made tonight on cnn. let's watch. >> i don't see any movement toward ts republicans wanting to raise taxes or people wanting to break their pledge. in fact, to be fair to everybody, some of these people have had impure thoughts. no one has pulled the trigger and voted for a tax increase. >> nothing's changed. he's also lying. they have indeed voted for a tax increase. senator tom coburn introduced last year, a bill in the senate to close the ethanol tax credit. saxby chambliss voted for it and violated their grover norquist pledge for it. >> and also, just by voting for the sequester, they have signalled the